How are Hinduism and Sikhism related, considering they both originated in Punjab, India?
08.06.2025 19:46
ਏਕੋ ਸੇਵੀ ਅਵਰੁ ਨ ਦੂਜਾ ॥੨॥
Sikhism is a NIRGUN path descending from the Sant Sampraday of Ramanandacharya and traces its ideas to VEDANTA!
All the men and women of the world are His living forms.
Where millions of Shivas are lost in contemplation, where millions of Indras dwell in the sky,
How can they kill the mother, whose milk they drink like that of a wet nurse?
I wasted my whole life in the city of Shiva;
What should I do if I love a girl and she apparently doesn't love me?
Actually, this part of the Ang 326 is widely used by McSikhs to show that Sikhism considers Hindu pilgrimages as useless and thus drives home the point again that the “religion” has got NOTHING to do with Hinduism.
Again we see that the originator of this Sant Sampraday himself talks about Brahman even in Gurbani.
ਹਜ ਕਾਬੈ ਜਾਉ ਨ ਤੀਰਥ ਪੂਜਾ ॥
What's an underrated/unknown novel or series that you think deserves more attention?
Kabir is the child of Allah and of Ram: He is my Guru, He is my Pir.
For many years, I practiced penance and intense meditation at Kaashi;
ਨਾ ਹਮ ਹਿੰਦੂ ਨ ਮੁਸਲਮਾਨ ॥
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ਮਰਤੀ ਬਾਰ ਮਗਹਰਿ ਉਠਿ ਆਇਆ ॥੨॥
To him who is high-minded, these teachings will be illuminating.
What is after school detention like in your school?
then who is there to know what happens without?
Raamaanand's Lord and Master is the All-pervading Lord God.
Guru Nanak (right) and Bhai Mardana (foreground) with Bhagat Kabir (left). This painting is found in the B-40 Janamsakhi, written and painted in 1733. The painting was made by Alam Chand Raj
Look within your heart, for there you will find both Karim and Ram;
ਤੂ ਪੂਰਿ ਰਹਿਓ ਹੈ ਸਭ ਸਮਾਨ ॥
ਏਕ ਦਿਵਸ ਮਨ ਭਈ ਉਮੰਗ ॥
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Bhagat Kabir ji / Raag Gauri / / Guru Granth Sahib ji - Ang 325
Shvetashvatara Upanishad (6.23)
— Kabir, II.57, Translated by Rabindranath Tagore
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I am like a fish out of water,
I do not make pilgrimages to Mecca, nor do I worship at Hindu sacred shrines.
ਮੁਆ ਕਬੀਰੁ ਰਮਤ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਰਾਮੈ ॥੫॥੧੫॥
The Word of the Guru's Shabad eradicates the karma of millions of past actions. ||3||1||
One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:
Recklessly they display boundless pride while explaining their own aims, they kill cows.
Have husbands and wives ever had a threesome with someone in real life? How did it happen?
ਸੋ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਬਤਾਇਓ ਗੁਰ ਮਨ ਹੀ ਮਾਹਿ ॥੧॥
ਘਸਿ ਚੰਦਨ ਚੋਆ ਬਹੁ ਸੁਗੰਧ ॥
ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਮੈ ਬਲਿਹਾਰੀ ਤੋਰ ॥
Is it legal for an employer to ask why you are taking time off from work?
ਕੈਸੇ ਬੂਝੈ ਜਬ ਮੋਹਿਆ ਹੈ ਮਾਇਆ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
Where the demi-gods and the munis are unnumbered, where millions of Saraswatis, goddess of music play the vina,
Bhagat Kabir ji / Raag Gauri / / Guru Granth Sahib ji - Ang 326
What are some of your favorite hip hop lyrics?
Where spring, the lord of seasons reigneth, there the unstruck music sounds of itself,
Now that my time to die has come, I have come to dwell at Magahar! ||3||
यस्य देवे परा भक्तिः यथा देवे तथा गुरौ । तस्यैते कथिता ह्यर्थाः प्रकाशन्ते महात्मनः प्रकाशन्ते महात्मन इति ।
What's at the center of Mars? Maybe the stench of rotten eggs - Space
The Sant Sampraday of Sikh panth integrates the warrior spirit of the Nihangs and Khalsa, the service of Seva panth and the renunciation of Udasi/Nirmala saints.
ਕਾਸੀ ਮਗਹਰ ਸਮ ਬੀਚਾਰੀ ॥
There, where millions of Krishnas stand with hands folded,
There is my Lord self-revealed, and the scent of sandal and flowers dwells in those deeps.
Now tell me, Lord, what will my condition be?
ਜਿਨਿ ਸਕਲ ਬਿਕਲ ਭ੍ਰਮ ਕਾਟੇ ਮੋਰ ॥
The divergence of Kabir’s views from Vedanta is seen in the fact that he fully opposed religious symbolism of ALL KINDS and not just IDOLS.
ਮੇਰਾ ਚਿਤੁ ਨ ਚਲੈ ਮਨੁ ਭਇਓ ਪੰਗੁ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
Sant Kabir was staunchly against cow slaughter.
Here ਰਾਮੈ is Rama and not just lord. Kabir died chanting the name of Rama DESPITE him not finding any result of penances done in holy cities in his previous birth. Another example to show how much Kabir valued personal devotion to Rama in his own NIRGUN style.
ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥
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You are totally pervading and permeating in all.
ਜਹਾ ਜਾਈਐ ਤਹ ਜਲ ਪਖਾਨ ॥
ਮਰਨੁ ਭਇਆ ਮਗਹਰ ਕੀ ਬਾਸੀ ॥੩॥
Bhagat Kabir ji / Raag Gauri / / Guru Granth Sahib ji - Ang 325
I left Benares - I had little common sense. ||1|| Pause ||
ਜਬ ਲਗੁ ਮਨਿ ਬੈਕੁੰਠ ਕੀ ਆਸ ॥
Where millions of Vishnus bow their heads, where millions of Brahmas are reading the Vedas,
I went to God's place, and worshipped Him there.
He accepted even women (Sursuri and Padywati) as disciples. Bhagat Pipa and Dhanna were Rajput and Jat who were also his disciples.
If Ram be within the image which you find upon your pilgrimage,
Ramananda accepted disciples without discriminating against anyone by gender, class or caste and they included even people from humble origins like
The young and the old drink milk pudding, but these fools eat the cow's body.
We have searched the turaki Dharam (Turk's religion, Islam), these teachers throw many thunderbolts,
Wherever I go, I find water and stones.
Raamaanand Jee, First House:
Let's look at the views of Sant Kabir
ਕਤ ਜਾਈਐ ਰੇ ਘਰ ਲਾਗੋ ਰੰਗੁ ॥
ਪੂਜਨ ਚਾਲੀ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਠਾਇ ॥
Kaashi and Magahar - I consider them the same.
ਏਕ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰ ਲੇ ਰਿਦੈ ਨਮਸਕਾਰਉ ॥੩॥
I am a sacrifice to You, O my True Guru.
CONCLUSION:
ਪੂਰਬ ਜਨਮ ਹਉ ਤਪ ਕਾ ਹੀਨਾ ॥੧॥
Says Kabeer, this is what I say:
ਸਗਲ ਜਨਮੁ ਸਿਵ ਪੁਰੀ ਗਵਾਇਆ ॥
Because in my previous life, I did not practice penance and intense meditation. ||1||
For a superficial McSikh who is interested only in separation and not enlightenment the views of Kabir can be easily shown as a denouncement of Hindu practices.
Ramanandacharya was a 14th-century Hindu Vaishnava devotional poet saint who amalgamated Advaita with Vaishnava Bhakti. He was the pioneer in validating NIRGUN and SAGUN Bhakti as parallel paths.
Sikhism is fundamentally rooted in BHAKTI tradition and thus ultimately in Sanatana Dharma. There is no doubt about it despite what modern McSikh acrobatics try to claim otherwise
From Guru Granth Sahib ji - Ang 1195
ਅਬ ਕਹੁ ਰਾਮ ਕਵਨ ਗਤਿ ਮੋਰੀ ॥
You have cut through all my confusion and doubt.
My body and breath of life belong to Allah - to Raam - the God of both. ||4||
ਤਬ ਲਗੁ ਹੋਇ ਨਹੀ ਚਰਨ ਨਿਵਾਸੁ ॥੩॥
How can people understand You, when they are entranced by Maya? ||1|| Pause ||
ਕਹੁ ਕਬੀਰ ਇਹ ਕਹੀਐ ਕਾਹਿ ॥
ਊਹਾਂ ਤਉ ਜਾਈਐ ਜਉ ਈਹਾਂ ਨ ਹੋਇ ॥੨॥
Ramarchan Paddati gives more info about his teachings.
There the streams of light flow in all directions, few are the men who can cross to that shore!
ਕਹੁ ਕਬੀਰ ਇਹੁ ਕੀਆ ਵਖਾਨਾ ॥
I have taken the One Formless Lord into my heart; I humbly worship Him there. ||3||
But we have actually seen how much Kabir is also rooted in the Vedantic concept of “supreme realization” but in a non-mainstream path.
ਰਾਮਾਨੰਦ ਜੀ ਘਰੁ ੧
I ground up sandalwood, along with several fragrant oils.
With inadequate devotion, how can anyone swim across? ||4||
ਗਉੜੀ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀ ਪੰਚਪਦੇ ॥
Says Kabeer, the Guru and Ganaysha and Shiva all know
Kabir (a weaver)
He who has highest Bhakti of Deva (God), just like his Deva, so for his Guru (teacher),
ਗੁਰ ਪੀਰ ਮਿਲਿ ਖੁਦਿ ਖਸਮੁ ਪਛਾਨਾ ॥੫॥੩॥
I do not perform Hindu worship services, nor do I offer the Muslim prayers.
ਅਲਹ ਰਾਮ ਕੇ ਪਿੰਡੁ ਪਰਾਨ ॥੪॥
Kabir, Ravidas and ultimately the NINE SIKH GURUS are a product of this very Sant Sampraday founded by Ramanandacharya!
Sain (a barber)
We can understand that Kabir despite being in favor of formless worship was very much embedded in the Dharmik fold but always preached in the spirit of the transcendental nature of Brahman to the point that HE LOST THE DISTINCTION BETWEEN HINDU AND MUSLIM.
— Kabir, Ramaini 1, Translated by David Lorenzen
Bhagat Kabir ji / Raag Sriraag / / Guru Granth Sahib ji - Ang 92
Kabeer: O worthless mortal, do not lose the Naam, the Name of the Lord.
ਕਹੁ ਗੁਰ ਗਜ ਸਿਵ ਸਭੁ ਕੋ ਜਾਨੈ ॥
If God be within the mosque, then to whom does this world belong?
Ravidas (a chamar shoemaker)
— Kabir, III.2, Translated by Rabindranath Tagore
ਰਾਮਾਨੰਦ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਰਮਤ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ॥
At the time of my death, I moved to Magahar. ||2||
I am not a Hindu, nor am I a Muslim.
ਗੁਰ ਕਾ ਸਬਦੁ ਕਾਟੈ ਕੋਟਿ ਕਰਮ ॥੩॥੧॥
Gauree, Kabeer Jee, Panch-Padas:
The views of Kabir are very much in parallel to the Advaita philosophy and it is obvious that as the disciple of Ramanandacharya he will carry forward with his chosen NIRGUN BHAKTI.
Says Kabeer, unto whom should I tell this?
Bhakti movement began in South (Tamil Nadu to be precise) and slowly spread to Northern parts of India. This movement was extremely popular because of its simple fundamentals which could be understood by even commonfolk. Vaishnavism, Shaivism etc… were already connecting with commonfolk from a long time and this Bhakti movement reinforced it by making the devotee feel a personal connection with the deity.
That God showed me the Guru, within my own mind. ||1||
I have searched through all the Vedas and the Puraanas.
We can see that great saints like Kabir and Ravidas etc… descended from the Ramananda sampradaya which is still the largest ascetic order in India.
These morons know nothing, they wander about in ignorance,
I serve the One Lord, and not any other. ||2||
ਬਹੁਤੁ ਬਰਸ ਤਪੁ ਕੀਆ ਕਾਸੀ ॥
ਕਬੀਰ ਨਿਰਗੁਣ ਨਾਮ ਨ ਰੋਸੁ ॥
ਸਾਧਸੰਗਤਿ ਬੈਕੁੰਠੈ ਆਹਿ ॥੪॥੧੦॥
ਮੁਆ ਕਬੀਰੁ ਰਮਤ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਰਾਮੈ
ਰਾਮਾਨੰਦ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਰਮਤ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ॥
Ramanandacharya’s teachings were centered on pure and personal connection with the God Rama and didn’t believe in any kind of formal ritualism. He used the common vernacular language instead of Sanskrit so that everyone could understand.
ਤਜੀ ਲੇ ਬਨਾਰਸ ਮਤਿ ਭਈ ਥੋਰੀ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
Where should I go? My home is filled with bliss.
From where did the word Maya come? Isn’t it a typical Vedantic concept discussed profoundly in Advaita? It definitely isn’t a concept pioneered by Kabir or even his teacher Ramanandacharya! It is ultimately from Sanatana Dharma!
Sadhna (a Muslim butcher) and
The influence of Kabir is significant on Sikhism. The following Bani from Ang 1136 is attributed to GURU ARJAN DEV but if you observe at the end you can see that he was talking in the spirit of Sant Kabir.
Let’s see what Gurbani has about Ramanandacharya’s views.
Meeting with the Guru, my Spiritual Teacher, I realize God, my Lord and Master. ||5||3||
That Kabeer died chanting the Lord's Name. ||5||15||
There is a reason why I mention ROOTED and thus NOT implying that it belongs to one of the numerous sects in Sanatana Dharma like Shaivism, Vaishnavism, Shaktism, Smartism etc…
Hari is in the East, Allah is in the West.
I am not a Hindu, nor am I a Muslim.
For him Dharma was beyond everything physical including the desire for heaven because was fully into the NIRGUN . The last verse shows that according to him the company of the enlightened Sadhus is heaven which is again a typical teaching of Sanatana Dharma.
ਓਛੀ ਭਗਤਿ ਕੈਸੇ ਉਤਰਸਿ ਪਾਰੀ ॥੪॥
As long as the mind is filled with the desire for heaven,
Raamaanand's Lord and Master is the All-pervading Lord God.
He does not dwell at the Lord's Feet. ||3||
Now here in this verse
So in the same spirit Kabir finds pilgrimages to holy cities futile as his mind is fixated on Rama!
ਬੇਦ ਪੁਰਾਨ ਸਭ ਦੇਖੇ ਜੋਇ ॥
=======================================================
NOW…
Let’s look at the most used verse by McSikhs to show that Sikhs are neither Hindus nor Muslims.
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ਬ੍ਰਹਮ is Brahm i.e the Brahman of vedanta but it gets interpreted as an all-pervading lord god.
As mentioned above Guru Arjan Dev was talking from the perspective Sant Kabir whose views we have discussed much earlier here. We know that Sant Kabir continuing in the Ramanandi Sampradaya went further away from the mainstream ritualistic Hinduism and was journeying more towards a SEAMLESS Dharma.
The Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, is heaven. ||4||10||
Without looking into one's heart, how can one reach paradise?
ਪੂਜਾ ਕਰਉ ਨ ਨਿਵਾਜ ਗੁਜਾਰਉ ॥
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ਜਿਉ ਜਲ ਛੋਡਿ ਬਾਹਰਿ ਭਇਓ ਮੀਨਾ ॥
One day, a desire welled up in my mind.
Here ਨਿਰਗੁਣ is Nirgun and not just lord. This is just another example to show that Kabir himself continued in the NIRGUN BHAKTI path.
I would go there, only if the Lord were not here. ||2||
ਨਾ ਹਮ ਹਿੰਦੂ ਨ ਮੁਸਲਮਾਨ ॥
My consciousness does not go out wandering. My mind has become crippled. ||1|| Pause ||